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Interviews II: Markets, Trading Games and the Final Round · ক্যারিয়ার
2Making a Market
Giving a bid and an ask on anything, at once, and moving them for the right reason: the value, the distribution, who is on the other side, what their trade just told you and what you already hold. In every question a bid is the price at which you buy and an ask the price at which you sell. The stem fixes the width of your quote and what the other side does, so each has one answer you can check. The early questions take a couple of minutes, and the last ones are derivations.
Question 2.1 ★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, hedge fund, crypto • junior
I roll three fair dice, and a contract pays their sum in dollars. Quote a bid and an ask exactly 1 apart, in steps of 0.5. A customer who has seen nothing then buys or sells one lot at your prices, choosing the side on a coin toss. What do you quote, and what do you expect to earn? Would a quote of 11 bid, 12 asked earn less on average?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.1.
Quote 10 bid, 11 asked, and expect to earn 0.5. A quote of 11 bid, 12 asked also earns 0.5 on average.
Each die averages 3.5, so the sum is worth 10.5. If the customer sells to you at 10, you gain 0.5 on average, and if they buy at 11, you gain 0.5. At 11 and 12, buying at 11 loses 0.5 and selling at 12 gains 1.5, and the average of the two is again 0.5. A customer whose side is a coin toss pays you half your width wherever the quote sits.
Classic wrong answer. Concluding that the position of a quote does not matter. It does not matter only because this customer ignores it. Someone who has worked out 10.5 would sell to you at 11 every time, and you would lose 0.5 on each trade.
Follow-up. How much risk are you taking for that 0.5? The sum has a standard deviation of , about six times your edge. One trade proves nothing. The edge shows up only over many trades.
Why it matters. Width pays you for uninformed flow, and the centre protects you against everyone else. Say both when you give a quote.
Question 2.2 ★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, hedge fund • junior
I draw one card from a shuffled 52-card deck and look at it. A contract pays its rank, from ace at 1 to king at 13. Quote a bid and an ask exactly 2 apart, in steps of 0.5. I sell you one lot at your bid if the rank is below it, buy one lot at your ask if the rank is above it, and otherwise pass. Which quote loses the least on average, and how much does it lose? If you may choose any whole-number width, what is the narrowest that loses less than 1?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.2.
Quote 6 bid, 8 asked, and lose on average. The narrowest whole-number width that loses less than 1 is 6, at 4 bid, 10 asked, which loses .
The ranks are equally likely and centred on 7, so the symmetric quote is best. At 6 and 8, the ranks 1 to 5 sell to you and lose you 5, 4, 3, 2 and 1, and the ranks 9 to 13 buy from you and lose you 1 to 5. That totals 30 over 13 ranks. The best quote at each width loses:
| Width | 2 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 12 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Average loss | 2.31 | 1.54 | 1.23 | 0.92 | 0 |
Classic wrong answer. Looking for a quote that makes money. Someone who knows the rank trades only when you are wrong, so you can never profit. Only at 1 bid, 13 asked do you stop losing, and there nobody trades. Width is a price you set on being picked off.
Why it matters. This is the extreme case of adverse selection. When you suspect the other side knows, the question stops being “what is it worth?” and becomes “how much am I willing to pay to find out?”
Question 2.3 ★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, hedge fund, crypto • junior
A fair die is rolled, and a contract pays the square of the result. Quote a bid and an ask exactly 2 apart, in steps of 0.5. A customer who has not seen the die buys or sells one lot, choosing the side on a coin toss. What do you quote?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.3.
Quote 14 bid, 16 asked. The contract is worth , not .
The expected value is . Of the half-steps, a mid of 15 is the nearest to 15.17 that fits a width of 2, so the quote is 14 to 16. The customer’s side is a coin toss, so the edge is 1 on average.
Classic wrong answer. Squaring the average die. The expectation of a square is the square of the expectation plus the variance, and the die’s variance is , which is exactly the gap between 12.25 and 15.17. This is Jensen’s inequality: a convex payoff is worth more than the payoff at the average.
Follow-up. What about a contract paying 1 divided by the die? It is also convex in the die, so again the average payoff beats the payoff at the average: against .
Question 2.4 ★ QT, Trader • market maker, hedge fund • junior
In a 52-card deck, count an ace as 1, number cards at face value, a jack as 11, a queen as 12 and a king as 13. Ten cards have been turned face up, and they total 100. One contract pays the value of the next card, and another pays the sum of all 42 cards still face down. You quote each one 1 wide, in steps of 0.25. Your counterparty sees the same ten cards. They buy at your ask if it is below the contract’s expected value, sell at your bid if it is above, and otherwise pass. What are your two quotes? Which contract carries more risk for you?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.4.
Quote the next card 5.75 bid, 6.75 asked, and the sum of the rest 263.5 bid, 264.5 asked. The first carries real risk, and the second carries none.
Each rank from 1 to 13 appears four times, so the whole deck totals . With 100 showing, the 42 unseen cards total exactly 264. Each is equally likely to be next, so the next card is worth , and the nearest quarter gives a mid of 6.25. Your counterparty’s value lies inside both quotes, so they pass.
Classic wrong answer. Treating the sum as uncertain because it adds 42 random cards. Those cards are not independent. The total is fixed, so the sum’s variance is zero. Averaging ignores what you have seen.
Follow-up. What would you do if someone offered to sell you the sum at 263? Buy as much as they will sell, because you make 1 on each lot for certain. Anyone who can count the deck will not offer it.
Question 2.5 ★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, crypto • junior
A die will be rolled. Contract pays 1 dollar if the result is 4, 5 or 6, and contract pays 1 dollar if it is 1, 2 or 3. You show at 0.55 bid, 0.60 asked and at 0.50 bid, 0.52 asked, and your counterparty takes any combination of one-lot trades that locks in a sure profit. What do they do, and how much do they make? What must your four prices satisfy so that no such combination exists?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.5.
They sell you both at 0.55 and at 0.50, collecting 1.05 and owing exactly 1, for a sure profit of 0.05. To rule this out, the two bids must add up to at most 1, and the two asks must add up to at least 1.
Exactly one of and pays, because the two events cover every result of the die with no overlap, so a pair of one lot each is worth exactly 1 whatever happens. A pair sold to you for more than 1 is free money for the other side. A pair bought from you for less than 1 is free money too. Your asks here add up to 1.12, so that side is safe.
Follow-up. Is 0.40 to 0.45 on both safe? No. The asks total 0.90, so they buy both from you for 0.90 and receive 1, making 0.10 for sure.
Question 2.6 ★ QT, Trader • market maker, hedge fund, crypto • junior
Two fair dice are rolled one after the other, and a contract pays the higher of the two. Quote a bid and an ask exactly 1 apart, in steps of 0.25, before either die is rolled. A customer who has seen nothing buys or sells one lot on a coin toss. Then the first die shows a 3, and you quote again on the same terms. What are your two quotes? What would your second quote have been if the first die had shown a 6?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.6.
Quote 4 bid, 5 asked before the rolls, and 3.5 bid, 4.5 asked after the 3. After a 6, the contract is worth exactly 6, so you would show 5.5 bid, 6.5 asked.
The higher of two dice equals in of the 36 outcomes, so the value is . Given a first die of 3, the second die gives a maximum of 3 in three cases, and otherwise 4, 5 or 6, so the value is .
After the first die the values are:
| First die | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Value | 3.50 | 3.67 | 4.00 | 4.50 | 5.17 | 6.00 |
Follow-up. Why would you ever keep a width after the 6? You need none for risk, because nothing is uncertain. The stem makes you show one, and the customer’s coin toss pays you for it. A real customer would not trade at 6.5 for something worth 6.
Question 2.7 ★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, hedge fund • junior
Make a market on how many prime numbers there are below 1,000, with no calculator. A contract pays that number in dollars. Your bid and ask must be exactly 20 apart, in whole numbers. I know the answer: I sell you one lot at your bid if the true number is below it, buy one lot at your ask if it is above, and otherwise pass. What do you quote, and how did you get it?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.7.
Quote about 159 bid, 179 asked. There are 168 primes below 1,000, so that quote passes.
The prime number theorem says the count of primes up to is about , and a sharper form is about . With , the sharper form gives . The centre of the quote is 169, and 20 wide makes it 159 to 179.
If you do not recall the theorem, sieve. About numbers have no factor of 2, 3, 5 or 7, and the exact count is 228. Those still include composites such as , so the answer is well below 229.
Classic wrong answer. Using as it stands. The quote 135 to 155 then loses when the interviewer buys at 155. The plain form runs low for small .
Question 2.8 ★★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, hedge fund, crypto • junior
You roll a fair die until the first six appears, and a contract pays the number of rolls in dollars. Quote a bid and an ask exactly 2 apart, in whole numbers. A customer who knows nothing buys or sells one lot on a coin toss. What do you quote? Compare the two ways the trade can go: on each, what do you expect to earn, how likely are you to lose money, and how much can you lose?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.8.
Quote 5 bid, 7 asked. Both sides earn 1 on average, and they differ completely in shape. If you are long at 5, you lose money with probability , and at most 4. If you are short at 7, you lose with probability , and the loss has no limit.
The number of rolls is geometric with mean 6 and variance 30, so the standard deviation is about 5.5. Its median is 4, since is below one half and is above. Most results are below the mean, and a few are far above it.
So a long position usually loses a little and sometimes wins a lot, and a short position usually wins a little and sometimes loses a lot. It takes 20 rolls or more about 3% of the time, and then a short loses at least 13.
Classic wrong answer. Centring on the median because “most outcomes are below 6”. The contract pays the number of rolls, so the mean is what breaks even over many trades.
Follow-up. Which side would you rather have at the same average profit? It depends on your limits. A short has a small chance of a very large loss, so it needs a limit, more edge, or both. Say that before you say which you prefer.
Why it matters. Selling a skewed payoff at a fair average is how selling options looks. A position may have a good expected value and still be one you cannot afford to hold.
Question 2.9 ★★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, hedge fund • junior
A contract pays the number of red cards among the top 10 of a shuffled 52-card deck. Quote a bid and an ask exactly 2 apart, in steps of 0.5. A customer who has not seen the cards buys or sells one lot on a coin toss. What do you quote, and how likely is the final number to land outside your quote? The first card is then turned over and is red. Where do you quote now, on the same terms?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.9.
Quote 4 bid, 6 asked. The result lands outside the quote with probability about 29%. After a first red card, the value is , and you quote 4.5 bid, 6.5 asked.
By symmetry each card is red with probability one half, so the expected number of reds is 5 whatever the dependence between cards. The count is hypergeometric, with variance
so the standard deviation is 1.43, below the 1.58 of ten independent coin tosses. Drawing without replacement pulls the count towards the middle. Summing the exact probabilities of 4, 5 and 6 gives 0.71.
After a red, the other nine cards come from 25 red in 51, so the value is . The first card was worth 0.5 and is now worth 1, a gain of 0.5. The other nine fall from 4.5 to 4.41, because a red has left the deck. Together the value rises by 0.41.
Classic wrong answer. Moving up by 1, or by 0.5. A rise of 1 forgets that the first card already counted for 0.5. A rise of 0.5 forgets that the other nine cards depend on the first.
Question 2.10 ★★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, hedge fund • junior, experienced
You believe an unknown quantity is normally distributed with mean and standard deviation . You quote a bid of and an ask of , and a contract settles at . Your counterparty knows : they sell one lot at your bid if is below it, buy one lot at your ask if is above it, and otherwise pass. Find your expected loss as a function of . How much do you lose if your quote is your 90% confidence interval? What width keeps the loss under 5% of ?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.10.
With , the expected loss is , where and are the standard normal density and distribution function. A 90% interval, , loses . To lose less than , you need , a width of about .
The counterparty buys when , costing you , and sells in the mirror case. So the loss is
This is the normal loss function. At it is , and at it is .
Classic wrong answer. Thinking a 90% interval loses 10% of something. You trade 10% of the time, but those trades lose only a small amount on average, because the tail is thin just beyond the interval.
Follow-up. Why not quote very wide, then? Against this counterparty you should. But you also want the uninformed flow, and it stops trading if you are wide. How wide you go is a balance between those two, not just a statement of your uncertainty.
Question 2.11 ★★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, hedge fund • junior, experienced
A contract pays, in dollars, the number of piano tuners in a city of five million. Your rough reasoning gives a best guess of 200 and leaves you unsure by about a factor of 2. Take that to mean the natural logarithm of the number is normal, with its mean at and standard deviation . You may quote any prices, and a customer who knows nothing buys or sells one lot on a coin toss. Around which number do you centre your quote, and why not 200? How likely is the true number to exceed your centre? What range holds the true number with 90% probability?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.11.
Centre on about 254. The contract pays the number, so the fair value is the mean, and for a lognormal the mean is the median times . Here , so the factor is .
So . The true number exceeds 254 with probability . The 90% range is , about 64 to 625.
Classic wrong answer. Centring on the best guess of 200. Half the time the number is above 200, but it can be far above, while it can only be a little below in absolute terms. If you sell at 200 again and again, you lose 54 a lot on average. A quote centred on the median gets the shape wrong as well: the range is not symmetric around the centre.
Follow-up. How did you get a factor of 2? A Fermi estimate is a product of factors, and logs of a product add. Three factors each unsure by a factor of 1.5 give a log standard deviation of , which is a factor of about 2.0 in all.
Why it matters. Unknown quantities are usually products, so their uncertainty is multiplicative. Your bid can be far nearer zero than your ask is to your centre, and saying so is a mark of someone who has thought about it.
Question 2.12 ★★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, hedge fund, crypto • junior
A contract is worth either 80 or 120, equally likely. You quote one bid and one ask, at any prices, and one trader arrives and trades one lot. With probability 30% the trader knows the true value, and buys if it is 120 and sells if it is 80. Otherwise they know nothing, and buy or sell on a coin toss. At what bid and ask do you exactly break even on average, whichever side they take?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.12.
Quote 94 bid, 106 asked. The break-even ask is the expected value given that someone buys, and the break-even bid is the expected value given that someone sells.
Use Bayes. If the value is 120, a buy comes with probability . If it is 80, a buy comes only from the coin toss, . So given a buy, the chance of 120 is , and the ask is . The bid is the mirror image, 94.
So the width is the share of knowing traders times the range, . This is the Glosten-Milgrom quote. Uninformed traders pay exactly what the informed ones take from you.
Classic wrong answer. Quoting around 100 with a width picked by feel. What matters is the value given that someone buys. There is a quick route here: 30% of buyers know and pay for 120, and the rest pay for an average of 100, so the ask is . It works only because the prior is one half. With any other prior, the share of knowers among buyers differs from 30%.
Follow-up. What if everyone knows, or nobody does? With everyone knowing, the quote is 80 and 120, and the trader gains nothing at those prices. With nobody knowing, it is 100 and 100, with no width at all, as there is nothing to protect against in this model.
Question 2.13 ★★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, hedge fund, crypto • junior, experienced
A contract is worth either 0 or 100, equally likely. Traders arrive one at a time, and each is a new person. Each trades one lot: with probability 20% they know the value, and buy if it is 100 and sell if it is 0. Otherwise they buy or sell on a coin toss. Before each trader you quote the bid and the ask at which you break even on average, at any prices. The first four trades are buy, buy, sell, buy. What is your quote before each of the first five traders? If the same four trades had come in another order, would your final quote change?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.13.
The quotes before the five traders are below, and the order does not matter, because each purchase multiplies the odds of 100 by 1.5, and each sale divides them by 1.5.
| Trader | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Trades so far | none | B | BB | BBS | BBSB |
| Bid | 40.00 | 50.00 | 60.00 | 50.00 | 60.00 |
| Ask | 60.00 | 69.23 | 77.14 | 69.23 | 77.14 |
If the value is 100, a buy has probability , and if it is 0, it has probability . The likelihood ratio is 1.5, and a sale gives its reciprocal. So with net purchases the odds of 100 are . The ask is the value given one more purchase, at odds , and the bid is the value given one more sale, at odds . With the ask is of 100, which is 69.23. The final odds are , so the chance of 100 is .
Follow-up. What if uninformed traders buy 70% of the time? A buy now has probability or , a ratio of 1.36, and a sale has ratio . Since , a sale moves you more than a buy: the rarer trade says more. Order still does not matter, but the net count is no longer enough, and you need both counts.
Question 2.14 ★★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, hedge fund • junior
A fair die has been rolled out of your sight, and a contract pays its value. You quote 3 bid, 4 asked. Your counterparty has looked at the die with probability one half. If they have, they sell one lot at your bid if the value is strictly below it, buy one lot at your ask if it is strictly above, and otherwise pass. If they have not, they buy or sell on a coin toss. You do not know which it is. They sell to you. What is the contract worth now? Where do you quote next, 1 wide and centred on your new value, in steps of 0.1? What is it worth if they had passed instead?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.14.
The contract is worth 2.7 after the sale, and you quote 2.2 bid, 3.2 asked. After a pass, it is worth 3.5.
Weigh each value by the probability of a sale. For values 1 and 2 the looker sells, so that is . For values 3 to 6 only the coin toss can sell, so . The weights sum to , so the posterior is , and the mean is 2.7.
A pass can come only from a looker, and a looker passes only on 3 or 4. So the value is one of those two, with mean 3.5. Note that this leaves the mid where it was, while the range has shrunk to a single unit.
As a check, use the law of total expectation. A sale and a purchase each have probability and a pass , and the purchase value is 4.3 by symmetry. Then , the original value.
Classic wrong answer. Assuming the seller surely looked, which gives 1.5. The seller may well be uninformed, and that is what stops the update from going so far.
Question 2.15 ★★ QT, Trader • market maker, hedge fund • junior, experienced
A contract is worth 90 or 110, equally likely. One trader arrives. With probability 10% they know the value, and buy if it is 110 and sell if it is 90. Otherwise they buy or sell on a coin toss. A trader who knows the value trades 100 lots with probability 80% and 1 lot otherwise. A trader who does not trades 100 lots with probability 5% and 1 lot otherwise. You see the size and side, and you may name a different price for each size. At what ask do you break even on average for a 1-lot buyer, and for a 100-lot buyer? If you must show one ask for both sizes, what is it?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.15.
Ask about 100.23 for one lot and 106.40 for 100 lots. A single ask for both sizes is about 106.0.
The value is 110 if the buyer knows, and it averages 100 if the buyer does not. So the ask is the probability that the buyer knows, given the size. Size is the signal, and Bayes gives
A single ask must break even across lots traded, not across traders. Knowing traders send lots per arrival and the others send , so knowing traders send 60% of the lots, and the ask is about 106.0.
Classic wrong answer. Averaging across traders. Most traders send one lot and are not informed, but most of the lots are. Those are the lots that cost you money.
Follow-up. What does the single ask do to small customers? They pay 106 for something worth little over 100, so they leave. And a knowing trader who is priced by size will split into small orders, which is why the signal weakens over time.
Why it matters. Showing less size near the mid and more further away follows from this calculation.
Question 2.16 ★★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, hedge fund, crypto • junior, experienced
A contract’s fair value is 100 and will not change before it settles at 100. You are long 40 lots, and your score at the end is your profit minus times your final position squared. A customer may buy one lot at your ask or sell one lot at your bid, and may also do neither. What is the lowest ask and the highest bid at which a trade would not lower your score? Your quote must be exactly 2 wide, centred between those two prices: what do you show? What do you show if you are short 40? How far does your centre move after each trade?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.16.
The lowest ask is 99.21 and the highest bid is 99.19, so the centre is 99.20, and you show 98.20 bid, 100.20 asked. Short 40, you show 99.80 bid, 101.80 asked. The centre moves by 0.02 against each trade.
Selling one lot at from long 40 changes your score by , so you accept any . Buying one lot at changes your score by , so you accept any .
With position the centre is . The prices at which you are indifferent are that centre plus or minus 0.01. A purchase takes up by 1, and the centre down by 0.02. This shifting of both sides together is an inventory skew.
Classic wrong answer. Lowering only the bid. You want to reduce the position in both ways: to be less likely to buy more, and more likely to sell. Moving both sides keeps your width and shows the same skew.
Follow-up. Why would a score have a squared position? It is the cost of carrying risk. A position of on a price with variance has a variance of , and a risk-averse holder charges in proportion to that.
Why it matters. Many interviewers ask this straight after a trade: “you are now long, quote me again.” A candidate who moves the fair value is confusing what they own with what the thing is worth.
Question 2.17 ★★ QT, Trader • market maker, crypto • junior
A contract’s fair value is fixed at 100, and you always quote 99 bid, 101 asked. Each round, exactly one customer arrives and buys or sells one lot on a coin toss. Your position must stay between and lots: at you take your bid down, and at you take your ask down, so a customer on that side goes away with no trade. You start flat, and any final position is marked at 100. What is your expected profit over 10 rounds? What is it per round in the long run? What is it per round in the long run with a limit of lots?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.17.
You expect to earn 9.125 over 10 rounds, against 10 with no limit. In the long run you earn per round. With a limit of , it is per round.
Each trade earns 1, so the question is how many customers you turn away. A position at a limit turns away half of them. Starting from flat, you can first turn someone away in round 4, and stepping the position’s probabilities forward exactly gives trades in 10 rounds.
For the long run, the position is a random walk that stays put when it would cross a limit. Every row and every column of its transition matrix sums to 1, so its stationary distribution is uniform on the positions. So you are at a limit with probability , and you turn away half the customers then, a share of . For , that is one customer in seven.
Classic wrong answer. Assuming the limit does not bite, as “we are only at the limit 2 times in 7”. It costs one seventh of your income, and this is with flow that is entirely two-sided.
Follow-up. How would you do better? Skew before you reach a limit, so that flow brings you back to flat. Here the customers ignore the price, so skew does nothing. Real customers do not.
Question 2.18 ★★ QT, Trader, QD • market maker, bank, crypto • junior
A contract pays the sum of three fair dice. Another dealer quotes a contract on each single die at 3.4 bid, 3.6 asked, in any size, and will keep doing so. You must show a quote on . Your counterparty takes any trades that lock in a sure profit against you and that dealer. For which bids and which asks can they do so? A separate customer, who knows nothing, then buys one lot of from you at your ask of 10.7. What do you make if you hedge at once with the single dice, and what if you do not hedge?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.18.
They can lock in a profit if your bid is above 10.8 or your ask is below 10.2. If you hedge the sale at 10.7, you lock in a loss of 0.1. If you do not hedge, you earn 0.2 on average, with a standard deviation of about 2.96.
Three single-die contracts together pay exactly the same as . So they cost 10.8 to buy and fetch 10.2 to sell. If you bid above 10.8, for example 10.9, the counterparty buys the three pieces at 10.8 and sells to you at 10.9, making 0.1 for sure. If you ask below 10.2, they do the reverse. Anywhere from 10.2 to 10.8 is safe from them.
A customer lifts your 10.7, and fair value is 10.5, so you have 0.2 of edge. Buying the pieces at 10.8 gives that up and costs 0.1 more. So a quote inside the pieces’ own bid and ask can make money only by carrying the risk for a while: you hold until a customer on the other side arrives, or you decide the risk is worth 0.2.
Classic wrong answer. Assuming that a hedge is always the right thing. A hedge has a price. Compare what it costs with the risk it removes.
Follow-up. Where would you quote if you must hedge every trade at once? At or outside 10.2 and 10.8. Then a trade locks in zero or better.
Question 2.19 ★★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, hedge fund • junior, experienced
Three fair dice , and are rolled out of your sight. Contract pays and contract pays , and you quote each one at 6.5 bid, 7.5 asked. Your counterparty knows the sum and nothing else. They buy one lot of at your ask if that sum is above it, sell at your bid if it is below, and otherwise pass. They buy from you. What is each contract worth now? Given what you now know, how many lots of , fractions allowed, should you buy to make the variance of your position as small as possible, and how much of it does that remove?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.19.
is now worth and is worth . The best hedge is only of a lot of , and it removes about 8.7% of the variance.
They buy when is at least 8, which has probability . Then . By symmetry takes half of the excess over 7, so rises by half as much as : it goes from 7 to 8.17. The cross-update is the slope of on , which is .
For the hedge, compute given what you now know. You are short , and given , the variance of is , the variance of is , and their covariance is . The variance-minimising amount of is . It removes .
Classic wrong answer. Using the unconditional ratio of . Before any trade that is right, and it removes 25% of ’s variance. Now is already pinned down to a narrow range, and still carries all of the noise in . A hedge of here raises the variance from 1.56 to 1.90.
Follow-up. What if they had known only ? Then does not move at all. How far one quote should move when another trades depends on what the trader knows, and you have to guess at that.
Question 2.20 ★★ QT, Trader, QD, LLE • market maker, crypto • junior, experienced
You quote a contract at its fair value plus and minus . Between one piece of news and the next, 10 uninformed customers trade one lot each with you, and each earns you . The next piece of news then moves the fair value by 2, up or down. With probability 80% a fast trader hits your old quote on the side that is now wrong, for one lot, before you can move it. Otherwise you move in time. What makes you break even? What is it if a faster system of yours cuts that 80% to 50%, and what if there are only 5 customers?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.20.
. With a 50% chance of being hit, . With 5 customers, .
Over one cycle you earn from customers. If the fast trader gets you, you sell at something now worth , or buy in the mirror image, and either way you lose . So break-even requires
with customers, and a move of . Each customer ends up paying for your share of the news: about when is large.
Classic wrong answer. Comparing only with the move of 2, and concluding that you need a width of 2. You are not hit on every customer, only once per piece of news. Width is that one hit spread across all the customers.
Follow-up. What does this say about speed? It is worth money, and you can price it. Cutting from 0.8 to 0.5 lowers the break-even half-width by 0.053. So you can quote tighter, take more customers, or keep the difference. It is also why a slower dealer widens, or quotes less, before scheduled news.
Why it matters. This is the plainest model of being picked off when your quote is stale, a cost that any quoting desk has to cover.
Question 2.21 ★★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, crypto • junior, experienced
A contract is worth 98 or 102, equally likely. Each trader trades one lot: 10% of them know the value and buy if it is 102 and sell if it is 98, and the rest buy or sell on a coin toss. A rival shows 99 bid, 101 asked. You may join at the same prices, in which case every trade is split equally between you. Or you may show bid, asked for some below 1, in steps of 0.1, and take every trade. What do you earn per trader in each case, and which is best if the rival stays put? Where do quotes end up if the rival also moves, one step at a time?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.21.
Joining earns 0.40 per trader. Posting inside at half-width earns , so earns 0.30, and earns 0.70. If the rival stays put, 0.9 is best. If the rival also moves, quotes fall to a half-width of 0.3 to 0.4, just above the break-even half-width of 0.2.
Per trade at half-width , an uninformed trader pays you , and a knowing trader costs you . Together, . At 99 and 101 that is 0.8 per trade, and sharing gives 0.40. Posting inside beats joining when , which is , so small improvements win.
When both move, one step takes the whole flow rather than half. At a shared half-width , you earn , and undercutting by 0.1 earns . Undercutting pays when . It ties at 0.4, and at 0.3 it loses. So the race stops there, one or two steps above break-even, because of the step size. At break-even, width is , which is the knowing share times the range, .
Follow-up. What if a rule lets the first in the queue take the whole trade? Then joining is worth less, or nothing if you join behind. Being early in the queue has a value of its own, as it does on a real exchange with price-time priority.
Question 2.22 ★★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, hedge fund • junior, experienced
A contract pays the sum of three fair dice, and you quote bid, asked. With probability one half your counterparty has looked at one die. They then work out the expected sum, sell one lot if it is below your bid, buy one lot if it is above your ask, and otherwise pass. Otherwise they have seen nothing and buy or sell on a coin toss. What makes you break even on average? What is it if they look with probability one quarter, or three quarters?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.22.
, a width of 1.6. With one quarter, . With three quarters, .
Someone who has seen a die values the sum at , so 8 to 13, or around 10.5. They trade only when that is outside your quote, and on average they then take the amount by which it exceeds . For between 0.5 and 1.5, those amounts are 0, and , each twice out of six, so the average loss to them is .
The coin toss pays you on average, so breaking even means
With , this gives , and that lies in the range assumed. The other two cases solve the same way, each with its own range: gives below 0.5, where the loss is , and again uses the range from 0.5 to 1.5.
Classic wrong answer. Using the sum’s standard deviation of 2.96. A single seen die tells them much less than that, and their value ranges only , so the width needed is much smaller.
Question 2.23 ★★★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, hedge fund, crypto • junior, experienced
A contract is worth 0 or 100, equally likely. Traders arrive one at a time, and each is a new person. Half of them know the value, and buy if it is 100 and sell if it is 0. The other half buy or sell on a coin toss. Before each trader you quote the bid and the ask at which you break even on average, at any prices. Every trader so far has sold. What is your quote before the first five traders? When does your width first fall below 5? How does the width behave as the sales go on, and why? How likely is a run of four sales if the value is really 100?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.23.
The quotes are below. The width first falls below 5 after four sales. It narrows as you learn, although you might expect it to grow as you take more losses. A run of four sales has probability , about 0.4%, if the value is really 100.
| Sales so far | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Bid | 25.00 | 10.00 | 3.57 | 1.22 | 0.41 |
| Ask | 75.00 | 50.00 | 25.00 | 10.00 | 3.57 |
| Width | 50.00 | 40.00 | 21.43 | 8.78 | 3.16 |
A sale has probability if the value is 0 and if it is 100, so each sale divides the odds of 100 by 3. After sales the odds are . The ask is the value given one more purchase, at odds , and the bid is the value given one more sale, at odds . So the ask after sales equals the bid after .
Width reflects how much a single trade can still tell you. At the start, the value is entirely unknown. After four sales, you are nearly sure, so a trade has little left to reveal.
Classic wrong answer. Thinking width grows when flow is one-sided. Your bid falls fast, which is painful, but the width is a separate thing. What widens a real market is new uncertainty, and that is not in this model.
Follow-up. And if the value is 0? Then the same run has probability , so it is an ordinary thing to see. That ratio is why you believe it.
Why it matters. After a sharp fall with steady selling, a candidate who widens automatically has confused pain with uncertainty.
Question 2.24 ★★★ QT, QR • market maker, hedge fund • junior, experienced
A contract’s value is uniform on 0 to 100. One trader arrives and trades one lot. With probability they know : they buy at your ask if is above it, sell at your bid if is below it, and otherwise pass. With probability they know nothing, and buy or sell on a coin toss. Find the ask at which a purchase makes you break even on average, and the bid at which a sale does, as functions of . Evaluate them at . What happens as approaches 1?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.24.
On a scale of 0 to 1, the ask is , and the bid is . At , the quote is 36.6 bid, 63.4 asked. As approaches 1, the ask rises to 100 and the bid falls to 0, so no trade happens: the market breaks down.
The ask equals the expected value given a purchase. A purchase comes from a knowing trader when , and from the coin toss at any . So
Clearing the fractions gives , and the smaller root is the one in .
Small gives , so the ask is about . For example, gives 52.5, and gives 93.4.
Follow-up. Why does the market break down only at here? Because any uninformed flow at all pays for a quote wide enough. With a continuum of values, a knowing trader’s profit shrinks as the ask nears 100, while the flow keeps its fee. With real costs, it can break down sooner.
Why it matters. Liquidity vanishes when informed trading is feared, as it does around a large unknown announcement. This is the simplest model that shows it.
Question 2.25 ★★★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, hedge fund • experienced
A contract’s value is uniform on 0 to 100, and you quote bid, asked. One trader arrives. With probability 20% they know : they buy one lot at your ask if is above it, sell one lot at your bid if is below it, and otherwise pass. With probability 80% they know nothing: they pick a side on a coin toss and trade one lot with probability , and not at all if is 20 or more. Which maximises your expected profit, and what is that profit? At which smaller do you only break even? Above what share of knowing traders is no quote profitable?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.25.
The best half-width is , and it earns about 0.95 per trader. You only break even at . Above a knowing share of 25%, no quote is profitable.
A knowing trader takes on the upside, and the same on the downside, so with uniform that averages . An uninformed trader trades with probability and pays on average. With share ,
Setting the derivative to zero gives . At , this is . Setting gives for the smaller root.
So the two quotes tell different stories. A market maker with no competition takes 11.9. Competition pushes the half-width down to 7.14, where profit is zero. At , the best half-width is 12.5, and it earns exactly zero, so at any larger share you should not quote at all.
Classic wrong answer. Assuming wider is always better. It is better against knowing traders, but you lose customers, and that sets the limit.
Follow-up. Why does the market not break down gradually? Because the uninformed flow’s fee has a ceiling while the knowing traders’ take grows. When the most you can make crosses zero, you stop, and you stop all at once.
Question 2.26 ★★★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, crypto • junior, experienced
A contract’s fair value is 100 and stays there until it settles. Your score is your profit minus times your final position squared. Exactly one customer comes, wanting to buy or sell one lot on a coin toss. A seller takes your bid with probability , where is how far your bid sits below 100. A buyer takes your ask with probability , with measured above 100. A bid above 100 or an ask below 100 is taken for certain. Which bid and ask maximise your expected score when you are flat, and when you are long 40? From what position does your ask reach 100?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.26.
Flat, you show 99.49 bid, 100.51 asked. Long 40, you show 98.69 bid, 100.00 asked. The ask reaches 100 from a position of 26.
The customer’s side is a coin toss, so choose each price separately. If a trade changes your penalty by , you maximise , whose derivative vanishes at .
Flat, either trade costs 0.01 in penalty, so . Long 40, a purchase costs , so the bid depth is . A sale saves , so , and the formula says . But an ask through 100 gets no more fills than an ask at 100, and only lowers the price. So you stop at , and earn 0.79. This is the corner of the problem.
Your ask reaches 100 when , so at . Your expected score from the trade is about 0.41, against about 0.18 for the flat quote at the same position.
Classic wrong answer. Printing the negative depth: quoting below fair value is giving money away, once the probability of a fill has reached one.
Follow-up. What is the ? With no inventory cost, you maximise , which gives . It is the markup that a seller facing that demand curve would charge.
Question 2.27 ★★★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, hedge fund • junior, experienced
A contract is worth 90 or 110, equally likely. One trader arrives: with probability 30% they know the value, and buy if it is 110 and sell if it is 90, and otherwise they buy or sell on a coin toss. What break-even bid and ask do you quote? Now you also see a public signal, seen by everyone, which names the true value correctly with probability 80%. It says 110. What break-even quote do you show now? Compare the two widths. What width does the signal leave if it is correct only 60% of the time?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.27.
With no signal, quote 97 bid, 103 asked. With the signal saying 110, quote about 103.66 bid, 107.63 asked, a width of 3.97 against 6. A signal correct only 60% of the time leaves about 98.94 to 104.72, a width of 5.78.
A public signal changes your prior, and the same Bayes step then gives the quote. Start with the signal, so the chance of 110 is 0.8, and treat a buy as a further observation with likelihoods and . Then
which gives an ask of . A sale reverses the likelihoods, and that gives 103.66.
Note that the quote is not centred on the new fair value, which is . The mid is at 105.64, because a trade can move you further towards 90 than towards 110.
Classic wrong answer. Thinking the share of knowing traders has fallen. It has not. But public knowledge shrinks what they know beyond you, so each of their trades takes less.
Follow-up. What would a perfect signal do? It would take the width to zero, as no one knows anything you do not. The value of a signal to a market maker is lower adverse selection, which means tighter quotes and more flow.
Question 2.28 ★★★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, hedge fund, crypto • junior, experienced
A contract pays the sum of two fair dice. You see only the first die, and a rival dealer sees only the second. Each of you offers to sell one lot at your own die plus 3.5 plus a markup , the same for both, and you both know this rule. A customer always buys one lot from the lower ask, and if the asks are equal you each sell half a lot. What is your expected profit at ? What makes you break even? With three dealers and three dice, each seeing one die and asking their own die plus 7 plus , the lowest asks sharing the sale equally, what breaks even?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.28.
At you lose about 0.236 per deal. Break-even is . With three dealers, it is .
You sell only when your own die is the lower one. Your ask is , and the contract pays , so your profit on a sale is , and winning selects a high . If your die is lower you win everything, and if they tie you win half. So given , your share is , and
This vanishes at . Among the deals where your die is strictly lower, the rival’s die averages , not 3.5. This is the winner’s curse: you win the trade when you have underestimated.
With three dealers, the same count over 216 outcomes gives . More rivals make it worse, because winning says more.
Classic wrong answer. Using the sum’s unconditional value and adding a small edge. That edge is entirely eaten by the fact that you only sell when the other die is high.
Follow-up. Is this the same as adverse selection from a customer? It has the same structure, but the customer here knows nothing. The information comes from your rival, through the customer’s choice between you.
Question 2.29 ★★★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, hedge fund • junior, experienced
A contract is worth 0 or 100, equally likely. One person trades with you every round, one lot at a time. With probability one half this person knows the value, and always buys if it is 100 and always sells if it is 0. Otherwise they know nothing and choose each side on a new coin toss. Before each round you quote the bid and the ask at which you break even on average for that round, at any prices. What do you quote in round 1? What after they have bought once, and after they have bought and then sold? Compare with a new person arriving each round, half of them knowing the value.
Answer
Answer to Question 2.29.
Quote 25 bid, 75 asked in round 1. After a purchase, quote 50 bid, 83.33 asked. After a purchase and then a sale, quote 50 bid, 50 asked. With a new person each round, the same three quotes are 25 to 75, 50 to 90, and 25 to 75.
There are four states: knows or does not, and 0 or 100, each of probability . A purchase has likelihood 1 from a knower at 100, 0 from a knower at 0, and otherwise. So after one purchase the states have probabilities: knower at 100, ; no knowledge at 100, ; no knowledge at 0, . The value is 75.
The next ask is the value given a second purchase, which reweights those to , giving . The next bid is the value given a sale. A knower who has just bought cannot sell, so a sale proves they know nothing, and the value goes back to exactly 50. Since a person who reverses is uninformed and their trades now say nothing, you need no width at all.
Classic wrong answer. Treating one person as a new draw every round. A second trade by the same person is much less informative than a trade by someone new, so the ask is lower than 90, and a reversal is decisive.
Follow-up. What happens to the bid if they keep buying? It stays at 50. The ask rises from 83.33 to 90, then towards 100, since each purchase makes it likelier they know.
Question 2.30 ★★★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, hedge fund • experienced
Ten cards numbered 1 to 10 are shuffled and three are dealt face down. A contract pays the highest of the three. Your counterparty has looked at one of the three and calculates perfectly: they work out the contract’s expected value given that card, sell one lot at your bid if your bid is above it, buy one lot at your ask if your ask is below it, and otherwise pass. Quote a bid and an ask exactly 2 apart, in steps of 0.25. What is the unconditional value? Which quote loses the least on average, and is it centred on that value? What is the contract worth after each thing they can do?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.30.
The unconditional value is . The best quote is 7.5 bid, 9.5 asked, which loses 0.05 on average. It is centred on 8.5, above the value. If they buy, the contract is worth 10, and if they pass, it is worth . They never sell.
Their value depends only on the card they saw:
| Card | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Value | 7.67 | 7.67 | 7.67 | 7.69 | 7.78 | 7.94 | 8.22 | 8.64 | 9.22 | 10.00 |
Low cards barely matter, because one of the other two is usually higher. The values are bunched at the bottom and spread at the top.
A quote centred on 8.25, at 7.25 to 9.25, has no seller either, but sells to card 10 at 9.25, losing . Moving up to 7.5 to 9.5 cuts that to 0.05. At 7.75 to 9.75, cards 1 to 4 begin to sell to you, and the loss returns to about 0.056. With a skewed distribution of their value, the best quote is not centred on the mean. As a check, .
Classic wrong answer. Centring on the value by habit. A quote protects you against the other side’s value, so it should sit around the distribution of that value, which is not symmetric here.
Question 2.31 ★★★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, hedge fund • experienced
Two fair dice and are rolled out of your sight. Contract pays , and contract pays . You quote both at 6.5 bid, 7.5 asked. Your counterparty has looked at exactly one die, chosen by a coin toss, and you do not know which. For each contract they work out its expected value given that die, sell one lot if that value is below your bid, buy one lot if it is above your ask, and otherwise pass. If you see only that they bought , what is each contract worth? What is each contract worth if you see them buy both, or buy and sell ? What is your average loss per deal?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.31.
If they bought , then is worth 9, and stays at 7. If they buy both, both are worth 9, and they saw . If they buy and sell , then is worth 9 and is worth 5, and they saw . You lose 2 on average per deal.
Seeing , they value both contracts at . Seeing , they value at and at . Either way they buy when the seen die is 5 or 6. So a purchase of raises its value by , whichever die it was. For , it is up 2 or down 2 with equal chance, so unchanged on average.
Their trade on then tells you which die. Buying both means was the seen die, so rises to 9. Buying and selling means it was , so falls to 5.
If the seen die is 3 or 4, they pass on both, which happens with probability . Otherwise you lose 1.5 on each of two trades, and .
Classic wrong answer. Moving with because they are related. Their covariance is zero, as they have equal variance from and with opposite signs on , so one trade in alone tells you nothing about on average.
Follow-up. So how should you update on after seeing only the trade? Keep the mid, but widen: will now be 5 or 9, and you do not yet know which. Your uncertainty about it has grown though your best guess has not moved.
Question 2.32 ★★★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, hedge fund • junior, experienced
A whole number from 1 to 10 has been chosen at random, and a contract pays it. You must quote, round after round, a bid and an ask exactly 1 apart, both whole numbers. Your counterparty knows the number. Each round they sell one lot at your bid if the number is below it, buy one lot at your ask if it is above it, and otherwise pass. How do you quote to make your expected total loss as small as possible, however many rounds the game lasts, and what is that loss? What does it become with the numbers 1 to 16? What does starting at 1 bid, 2 asked and walking upwards cost?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.32.
Quote through the middle each time, which is a binary search: start at 5 bid, 6 asked, then split what remains. The expected total loss is . With numbers 1 to 16, it is . Walking up from 1 bid, 2 asked costs 7.
Start at 5 and 6. If they pass, the number is 5 or 6, and you never lose again, so you show 5 bid, 6 asked forever. If they sell, the number is from 1 to 4, and you have lost . Next quote 2 bid, 3 asked. If the number is 1, they sell again and you lose 1, and then you know it. If it is 4, they buy, and you lose 1. So the total losses for the numbers 1 to 10 are:
| Number | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Total loss | 5 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 5 |
That sums to 24. The first quote costs 2.0 on average, and the second only 0.4 more. A dynamic program over all sets of remaining numbers confirms that no other quoting does better, and that more rounds cost nothing once you have the number.
Walking upwards loses far more. If the number is 10, you lose 8, then 6, 4 and 2, for a total of 20, and the average over all numbers is 7. Every quote is on the wrong side of the same number.
Follow-up. What would you pay to be told the number? Up to 2.4, because that is what the information costs you to find out by quoting.
Why it matters. After a trade against you, an aggressive move of the quote costs less in total than a slow walk. A candidate who moves by a little each time pays the most.
Question 2.33 ★★★★ QT, Trader, QR • market maker, hedge fund, crypto • experienced
A contract’s fair value is fixed at 100, and you always quote 99 bid, 101 asked, or take down one side. Each of 10 rounds, one customer arrives and buys or sells one lot on a coin toss, and trades if that side of your quote is up. You start flat. Your final score is your profit, with the final position marked at 100, minus times your final position squared. When should you take a side down? Give the largest position you are willing to reach with 1, 2 and 3 rounds left by reasoning, then the whole policy. What is the best expected score? Compare it with never taking a side down, and with the best fixed limit.
Answer
Answer to Question 2.33.
Take a side down when one more lot would add more penalty than it can repay. The largest position you will go to, by rounds left from 1 to 10, is 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6. The best expected score is 8.41, against 8.00 for never taking a side down, and 8.35 for the best fixed limit, which is .
Work back from the end by backward induction. With one round left, a purchase at position gains , which is positive for and exactly zero for . So you buy up to 2 and no further. With two rounds left, compute the value of each position with one round left, and compare again. A purchase now is worth more than it would be at the end, because one more trade may take you back down. So you buy up to 3.
Each step back adds time for flow to return you towards flat, so the allowed position grows with the rounds left.
Never taking a side down earns one per round, or 10, minus , so 8.00. A fixed limit of gets most of the gain but is too tight early and too loose at the end.
Classic wrong answer. Treating a limit as one fixed number. It should depend on how long you have to work out of the position. A position with a day to unwind is not the same as one at the close.
Follow-up. What if the customers respond to price? You can then skew your quote instead of refusing trades. Taking a side down is an extreme skew, and a price does the same job more smoothly.
Question 2.34 ★★★★ QR, QT • market maker, hedge fund • experienced
A stock’s true value is normal with mean 100 and standard deviation 2. Uninformed customers send a net order , normal with mean 0 and standard deviation 100 shares, independent of . One insider knows and, without seeing , sends an order of shares to maximise expected profit. You see only the total , and you fill it all at a price that makes you break even given . Assume the insider’s order is linear in and your price is . Find , the insider’s order and expected profit, and how much of the variance of remains after the price is set.
Answer
Answer to Question 2.34.
per share. The insider’s order is , and the expected profit is . After the price is set, half the variance of remains, so 2 out of 4. This is the one-period Kyle model.
The insider chooses to maximise , since the noise averages to zero. That gives with . You set the price to the expected value given the flow, so is the regression slope of on :
Substituting gives , which is the result.
The insider’s order has the same variance as the noise, because . It hides in the crowd exactly. So half of the variance of is signal, and the price moves half of the way to the truth. The insider’s expected profit is , and the noise traders pay for it: each order moves the price against itself by , which costs them on average.
Classic wrong answer. Having the insider trade until the price reaches the true value. The order moves the price, so the best size is only half of the one that would remove the edge.
Follow-up. What happens if noise doubles? halves, the insider’s order and profit double, and the price becomes no less informative. More noise pays the insider and does not change the variance left.
Question 2.35 ★★★★ QR, QT • market maker, crypto • experienced
A stock trades at a mid of 100. You hold 2 shares, and at the end of the period the mid will be normal with mean 100 and variance 4. You have exponential utility of final wealth, with risk aversion 0.1, so the utility of wealth is . You post one bid and one ask. Exactly one customer comes, wanting to buy or to sell one share on a coin toss. A seller takes a bid below 100, and a buyer takes an ask above 100, with probability , for . Derive the bid and ask that maximise your expected utility. What are they? How do they split into a shift caused by your position and a width? What happens as the risk aversion goes to 0?
Answer
Answer to Question 2.35.
The bid is about 98.35, and the ask is about 100.05. The width is , and the centre is , with , , and . As goes to 0, each side goes to from 100, so about 99.33 to 100.67.
With no fill, exponential utility of a normal gives , where is your cash. If your bid at depth is taken, you pay and hold , so
Here is the inventory cost of that purchase. Expected utility on that side is
Since is negative, you want the bracket small. Setting , the first-order condition gives , which is
For the ask, the same steps give . So and . Holding 2 shares, you barely charge to sell, and you charge a lot to buy.
This is the one-period form of the Avellaneda-Stoikov quote. The shift depends on your position and the risk, and the width on the risk and the customers’ sensitivity to price.
Classic wrong answer. Adding the inventory term to one side only. It moves both sides, and is the part it adds to the width.